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Nostalgia is overwhelming!

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Author Topic: Nostalgia is overwhelming!  (Read 1843 times)
King_Barrowclaw
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« on: April 01, 2008, 02:00:17 pm »

As I've posted elsewhere I am currently trying to make up my mind which previous edition of D&D would be the most fun for my group. I am fortunate to have all the pdfs of many of the books and I own several 1st and 2nd edition and the Rules Cyclopedia.

I am having difficulty deciding just from nostalgia alone! I can remember many happy times with OD&D which the RC would probably do fine for. I also have great fondness for AD&D. I've heard that the RC isn't truly "Gygaxian" and so forth. Does this matter? Is it even true? What do you people think?

May you always make your saving roll.
KE
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randalls
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2008, 02:51:46 pm »

As I've posted elsewhere I am currently trying to make up my mind which previous edition of D&D would be the most fun for my group. I am fortunate to have all the pdfs of many of the books and I own several 1st and 2nd edition and the Rules Cyclopedia.

Welcome to the board!

Quote
I am having difficulty deciding just from nostalgia alone! I can remember many happy times with OD&D which the RC would probably do fine for. I also have great fondness for AD&D. I've heard that the RC isn't truly "Gygaxian" and so forth. Does this matter? Is it even true? What do you people think?

I'd probably run BECMI or its complied version, the Rules Cyclopedia. According to Frank Mentzer (who edited the BECMI boxed sets), Gary Gygax had a lot of input into their design and intended them to be a somewhat "definitive" edition of D&D.  OD&D, first edition AD&D, and the original B/X boxes, and the BECMI/RC editions are very heavily influenced by Gygax in my opinion. Second Edition and latter start moving away from his influence. So, if you are looking for Gygaxian flavor, any of those would be a good basis.

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Greyharp
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2008, 04:30:21 pm »

I must admit that I am completely and nostalgically biased towards 1e, the game I chose to introduce to my rpg-newbie group a couple of years back. For you the decision may simply come down to whether you're happy with the race = class concept of Basic, or the separation of the two in AD&D, with the added joy of more complexity.

Another option you have is the simulacrum/retro-clone games. If you haven't come across them yet, they don't seek to replace the original games, but to create a legal outlet for third parties to publish material compatible with the original games.

Some say "what do I need retro-clone rules for, I have the originals?" They are free, have all the rules in one book, and everyone in the gaming group can easily have a copy. They are also available POD for those who want a nice finished product.

Anyway, here are some links to give you more food for thought  Smiley

OSRIC = 1e AD&D
Labyrinth Lord = Basic D&D
BFRPG = Basic D&D with some 3e influence

The last one has a Basic feel, but with some changes such as ascending AC, that many find attractive.

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brianm
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 11:13:18 am »

Ok, so I'm coming into this thread very late.  Yikes!  Grin

What do you want from your games?  I'm feeling a pull towards Moldvay/Cook/LL because it's so wonderfully open.  It allows me to drop in all sorts of wacky houserules without really rocking the boat or overwhelming my players. 

If I wanted the "real Gygax Experience" I'd probably use 1st edition with Greyhawk. 

So what is it that you and your players are looking for?

- Brian
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oltekos
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2008, 04:01:05 pm »

Ok, so I'm coming into this thread very late.  Yikes!  Grin

You're not the only one!!!

I myself have always been partial towards BECMI/R.C. D&D.  It's what I started with, & what my friends, loved ones, & I prefer.  Very simple & loads of fun. Grin
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Philotomy
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2008, 05:52:42 pm »

I think it depends on exactly what you're looking for.  My first pick would be OD&D (1974), but I'm also fond of AD&D 1E and of Classic D&D (i.e. B/X or BECMI).

I'd pick OD&D74 if you want a toolkit approach where you can really make the game your own.  If you've been playing D&D for a long time, this can be an exceptionally fruitful way to go.

I'd pick B/X if you want straightforward classic D&D you can just sit down and play.

I'd pick AD&D 1E if you want the that "Gygaxian" D&D feel (although I'll point out that Gary didn't use some of the rules in 1E, and when he ran D&D in his later years, he ran OD&D74 with his own house rules).  Alternatively, if you a want something simpler than AD&D that still has a more Gygaxian feel, I'd go with Holmes Basic + the Holmes Companion, which expands the Basic set up to 9th level.

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brianm
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2008, 08:40:22 pm »

I'm going with Moldvay/Cook for my next campaign for two very important reasons:

1st, it was my introduction to the hobby.  Even when I "graduated" to 1e, I still mostly played with Moldvay/Cook rules, so I know the system backwards and forwards.

2nd, since Labyrinth Lord is a free PDF, I can take their PDF, splice in my own houserules, and then distribute them to my players without violating any copyrights or screwing any hard-working artists and game designers.

Not being any more of a jerk than I have to be is high on my list of priorities these days.  Grin

- Brian
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randalls
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2008, 09:46:49 pm »

2nd, since Labyrinth Lord is a free PDF, I can take their PDF, splice in my own houserules, and then distribute them to my players without violating any copyrights or screwing any hard-working artists and game designers.

That is one of the best things about OGL simulacrum games. You can personalize the systems for your campaign. When we played AD&D 1E back in the 1980s, I always wished I could do that.
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King_Barrowclaw
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2008, 10:13:45 am »

Thanks for all of the insightful responses! Sorry for the long absence. I really appreciate the points of view and ideas presented as it really helped us decide.  Smiley

I really should have given some background with my original post. The group I gamed with until recently has disbanded due to constant bickering and arguing about 3e rules! We struggled with this for the last 5 years! People coming and going, campaigns derailed, and no small amount of bitterness. When we started there were 14 of us, all enthusiastic for the new edition. Most left within the first two years, citing the rules had become insufferably stifling to creative thinking. I wish I had left back then, but I stayed and tried to help "fix" things. Well, that didn't work. To this day I still have no idea what went so terribly wrong with 3e for us. The games seemed a blur of rules, rules, rules with very little adventure or fun. If you succeeded at something you didn't feel like you, as the player, had done anything yourself. Rather it was cleverness with stat manipulation that made all the difference. None of us were new to D&D. I've been playing since '74 and most of the others were a mix of 1e and 2e. I'm so burned out now from this disaster that I don't even want to LOOK at anything 3e!  Roll Eyes

I'm now starting up my own little group consisting of several old-time friends and my two oldest daughters who have always been curious about this game their dad has played. I've gone over the rules with them all and they think they like the rules-lite style of play that the old games offered so I'm going to try them out on OD&D just using the three original booklets. They're looking forward to it. I'm running them around an old Tunnels & Trolls adventure of mine and there is much laughter at the table. This is more like it! We recently were looking at snippets of the new 4e and it honestly reminded us more of an episode of Power Rangers, LOL! I'm not sure it's for me, but I'll look at the quick start rules.  Wink

Well, sorry about the rambling post. Thanks again.  Grin
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randalls
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2008, 11:22:20 am »

I really should have given some background with my original post. The group I gamed with until recently has disbanded due to constant bickering and arguing about 3e rules!

This sounds like another example of how 3.x rules encourage too much rules-think and rules-lawyering.

Quote
I've gone over the rules with them all and they think they like the rules-lite style of play that the old games offered so I'm going to try them out on OD&D just using the three original booklets.

If you are fed up with lots of detailed rules, OD&D is definitely the best way to go to the opposite end of the spectrum. Hope y'all have fun.
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Greyharp
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2008, 05:32:37 pm »

I'm running them around an old Tunnels & Trolls adventure of mine and there is much laughter at the table.

Sounds like you've rediscovered the point of the game - fun. Great result.  Smiley
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King_Barrowclaw
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 11:35:48 pm »

Sounds like you've rediscovered the point of the game - fun. Great result.  Smiley

Thanks, Greyharp! It has been a looong time since the fun and laughter was there alright. Also, the other thing that the players most commented on was the freedom they felt in choice of response to the adventure. For example: they were up against a fairly powerful monster and instead of just hitting it with a spell which probably would not have damaged it very much the mage blasted at the overhead stalactites to bring them down on the creature's head.

He said to me, "It's been a long time since I thought outside the box like that!" Just a little thing but it really pleased everyone at the table immensely.
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RobertFisher
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2008, 08:32:40 am »

My own answer (for D&D) has been this: Use Moldvay/Cook/Marsh as the base. While it is heavily influenced by the oD&D books, it is more straightforward. It isnít as long or complicated as AD&D or even BECMI/RC. Itís a nice middle-of-the-road to start with.

Then steal liberally from all the rest. Use it all!
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Hywaywolf
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2008, 11:28:55 am »

My own answer (for D&D) has been this: Use Moldvay/Cook/Marsh as the base. While it is heavily influenced by the oD&D books, it is more straightforward. It isnít as long or complicated as AD&D or even BECMI/RC. Itís a nice middle-of-the-road to start with.

Then steal liberally from all the rest. Use it all!

I'll go one step further and advice that you look into BFRPG that was linked above.  It has already done what RobertFisher advised.  It has kept the simplicity and nostalgic feel of Moldvay/Cook, added in some of the better ideas from other games like ascending AC, Ability Bonuses, Attack Bonuses, separating Classes and Races and increasing all the tables so that PCs can go from level 1 to 20.  There has also been a lot of work done on supplemental material by quite a few people that are also available.  Check it out.  My kids love the game and easily run it themselves (like it was done by 12 yo back in the hey day, with very little emphasis on the actual rules Smiley ) or by playing closer to the rules when I DM for them.  Its also meaty enough to keep adult gamers happy.

BTW, I'm glad I ran across this thread while googling BFRPG.  One can never have to many retro gaming forums to read Smiley
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randalls
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2008, 11:41:55 am »

BTW, I'm glad I ran across this thread while googling BFRPG.  One can never have to many retro gaming forums to read Smiley

Welcome to the forum!
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