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Microlite74 Option - Vancian Magic


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Author Topic: Microlite74 Option - Vancian Magic  (Read 4489 times)
Chgowiz
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« on: November 26, 2008, 02:21:15 pm »

Magic Users may opt to memorize spells instead of reading them out of their books and burning HP. Casting a spell does not cost them HP, but they may be unable to reuse that spell once it's cast. Such Magic Users are known as Wizards or Mages (in my house rules). Those Magic Users who use the spell books to cast their magicks are known as Sorcerors (or hedge wizards).

Magic is a powerful and fickle thing, and those that attempt to master it often find themselves in harms way in trying to control such power. A Wizard may attempt to "hold onto" the magic in his mind as he is casting the spell. The DM rolls a d6 and uses the following chart:
1 - Spell is retained in memory.
2 - Spell is lost from memory but nothing bad happens.
3 - Spell is lost from memory and PC loses 1/2 of their HP total.
4 - Spell is lost from memory and PC loses 3/4 of their HP total.
5 - Spell is lost from memory and PC loses their HP total.
6 - Spell is lost from memory. PC loses their HP total plus (1d6 x lvl of caster) of damage.

Note that results of 3 - 6 will apply the normal rules of m74 damage, that is if they were not at full HP, then they may be dropped to 0 and possibly lose some of their STR as well. A result of 6 when a mage has been in combat will more than likely kill them.

This gives the Magic User player a few options:
- If they want to be more involved in combat, they can become a Wizard/Mage which gives them more HP to rely on, but fewer magic options at lower levels. There's a real danger to trying to hang onto spells, but if a Wizard is desperate, they may be able to count on luck to help them.
- If they want to maximize their casting at the sacrifice of HP, they can opt to be a Sorceror/Hedge Wizard, which may allow them to cast 2 spells at 1st level and still have an HP or two left to survive on. I hope that Sorceror is paired up with some strong Fighting Men!

That's my m74 tweak. Smiley
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randalls
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 06:46:55 pm »

Magic Users may opt to memorize spells instead of reading them out of their books and burning HP.

I really thought about making a more Vancian system for M74. What stopped me was coming up with a way to handle the number of spells of each spell level available to a character of a given level without a space-eating table. How are you determining how many spells of a given level a character can memorize?
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Chgowiz
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 07:25:20 pm »

I really thought about making a more Vancian system for M74. What stopped me was coming up with a way to handle the number of spells of each spell level available to a character of a given level without a space-eating table. How are you determining how many spells of a given level a character can memorize?

Cheating and using the same sort of levels/spells that Swords/Wizardry (I'm guessing the LBB are the same?) and Holmes Basic outline, but I can see how that would be an issue given your space limitations

You *could* represent it like so, since you only have 6 levels of spells in the rules:
1: 1/0/0/0/0/0; 2: 2/0/0/0/0/0; 3: 2/1/0/0/0/0; 4: 3/2/0/0/0/0; 5: 4/2/1/0/0/0; 6: 4/2/2/0/0/0; 7: 4/3/2/1/0/0; 8: 4/3/3/2/0/0; 9: 4/3/3/2/1/0; 10: 4/4/3/2/2/0; 11: 4/4/4/3/3/0; 12: 4/4/4/4/4/1
(Above 12th level, reference one of the 0e/1e retroclones or LBB)

But that probably isn't clear enough. Hmm...
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Ramblings about RPG'ing: http://oldguyrpg.blogspot.com/
randalls
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2008, 07:14:49 am »

But that probably isn't clear enough. Hmm...

It's quite clear to me and probably to anyone used to such tables, but I don't think it would be all that clear in general.
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Chgowiz
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2008, 08:02:25 am »

It's quite clear to me and probably to anyone used to such tables, but I don't think it would be all that clear in general.

Right, the problem is coming up with something that's easily expressed in words. Because you are using HP as the method of determining how many spells someone can throw, you don't need a chart.

I tried coming up with some sort of "progression" and here's what I came up with:

Chgowiz m74 Vancian
1   1
2   2
*3   2/1
4   2/2
*5   3/2/1
6   3/2/2
*7   4/3/2/1
8   4/3/2/2
*9   4/4/3/2/1
10   4/4/3/2/2
*11   4/4/4/3/2/1
* Indicates access to new level of spells

The general rule I used was something that can be explained by eyeballing the chart. The pattern is that the "highest/new" level you have, you "progress" from 1, to 2 spells, then you jump to the next level. It's always a 1/2/jump. For the levels 2 and greater below your current level, you gain a new spell in each when you gain access to new levels, with the limit being 4 spells.

I can "program" this, but damned if I can explain it in words.

In comparing this with S/W (which I'm assuming uses the same progression as LBB), LBB gives one more first level spell than my method for character level 4, 5, 6. LBB gives one more 3rd level spell at character level 8, and my method gives one more 2nd level spell at character level 9. At character level 11, LBB has one more 5th level spell and I give one more 6th level spell.

S/W (LBB?) Spell progression
1: 1
2: 2
3: 2/1
4: 3/2  (SW 1 more)
5: 4/2/1  (SW more 1)
6: 4/2/2  (SW more 1)
7: 4/3/2/1
8: 4/3/3/2  (SW more 3)
9: 4/3/3/2/1  (CV more 2)
10: 4/4/3/2/2/
11: 4/4/4/3/3  (SW more 5, CV more 6)

The tradeoff is my rule that a mage can attempt to "hold" a spell in memory, at the risk of injury and possibly death. So I like my progression rules, now if only I could give it "words"...
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Ramblings about RPG'ing: http://oldguyrpg.blogspot.com/
randalls
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2008, 05:43:23 pm »

I can "program" this, but damned if I can explain it in words.


Let alone explain it simply in words.

I thought of some doing something like: You can memorize (Your Level * (Your Level +1))/2 Levels of spells that you can cast. You must always allocate at least one more spell of each lower level. For example if you are 4th level you can memorize up to 10 levels of spells. At 4th level, a character can only memorize 1st or second level spells. Therefore, one could memorize 4 first level and 3 second level spells, but could not memorize 2 first level and 4 second level spells as one must always memorize at least one more of a lower level spell than of a higher level spell.

But even this was hard to understand and could give mages a huge number of lower level spells.

[Edit: corrected typo in formula]
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 09:50:50 pm by randalls » Report Spam   Logged
Chgowiz
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2008, 06:54:55 pm »

I thought of some doing something like: You can memorize (Your Level * (Your Level -1))/2 Levels of spells that you can cast. You must always allocate at least one more spell of each lower level. For example if you are 4th level you can memorize up to 10 levels of spells. At 4th level, a character can only memorize 1st or second level spells. Therefore, one could memorize 4 first level and 3 second level spells, but could not memorize 2 first level and 4 second level spells as one must always memorize at least one more of a lower level spell than of a higher level spell.

But even this was hard to understand and could give mages a huge number of lower level spells.

Wow, my head hurts! LOL.

Yea, it might just be that Vancian spell levels are best explained with a chart. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best. Smiley

Still thinking about a way to present that information though...
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2008, 09:45:02 pm »

Wow, my head hurts! LOL.

That's why I did not include anything like this in M74. LOL.
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Chgowiz
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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 07:52:18 pm »

That's why I did not include anything like this in M74. LOL.

I sat down with one of my programmers on my team and between the two of us, we could not come up with a clear and concise explanation, in words, on how to make the spell advancement work. I see that you're going to use a chart, and that's a great idea. Smiley

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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 09:32:18 pm »

I sat down with one of my programmers on my team and between the two of us, we could not come up with a clear and concise explanation, in words, on how to make the spell advancement work.

I've thought of a fairly simple way, but the end result does not look anything like the number of spells in 0e.  Each MU has twice his/her level in memory space. Each spell takes up its level in memory space.  With this system low level MUs would be stronger than in 0e while high level would be somewhat weaker -- although a 13th level MU would be able to memorize four 6th level spells (and 2 first level or 1 second level) if he wanted a very limited number of very powerful spells.  I'll probably just go with the spell table.

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Chgowiz
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2008, 10:01:55 am »

I've thought of a fairly simple way, but the end result does not look anything like the number of spells in 0e.  Each MU has twice his/her level in memory space. Each spell takes up its level in memory space.  With this system low level MUs would be stronger than in 0e while high level would be somewhat weaker -- although a 13th level MU would be able to memorize four 6th level spells (and 2 first level or 1 second level) if he wanted a very limited number of very powerful spells.  I'll probably just go with the spell table.

That would certainly fit in more with the LBB "feel", although I completely understand with wanting something that could be easily explained in a sentence or two. Maybe we're looking at a "Macropedia" for m74 similar to m20?

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Ramblings about RPG'ing: http://oldguyrpg.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2008, 01:05:19 pm »

That would certainly fit in more with the LBB "feel", although I completely understand with wanting something that could be easily explained in a sentence or two. Maybe we're looking at a "Macropedia" for m74 similar to m20?

I suspect we are.  I'm looking into some type of wiki-like site for M74. As there seems to be a lot more interest in it than I thought there would be, I think something users can add to devoted to M74 and variants would be a good thing.
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Chgowiz
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 01:08:03 pm »

I suspect we are.  I'm looking into some type of wiki-like site for M74. As there seems to be a lot more interest in it than I thought there would be, I think something users can add to devoted to M74 and variants would be a good thing.

Cool!
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Ramblings about RPG'ing: http://oldguyrpg.blogspot.com/
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